And fyi, I am not going to use the actual pictures/videos in my project. I dont think enough people are looking at the theory that Chris had flipped a switch with her in the days leading to her death. (He left the house as the sun was coming upmore on this below). My youngest daughter slept in a bra as well. Or even creepier, but fitting the narcissist he is, asked her to lie down and talk to him, maybe even told her he was sorry and wanted to try and work things out and then pinned her down and strangled her. Advertisement. Cassie Rosenberg Page 626 I havent finished reading the Discovery yet (just at the freaky prison fan mail/hate mail) but I havent read anything yet about any DNA testing of the sheets? Did she even go upstairs to sleep? I am in Australia and I came across this story by accident and I am just horrified. I also have seen that neighbors vid of the loading of truck & see a female in video helping him load up , and even a small luve figure of a child. Like 1 in the kitchen by her purse. Before I forget one glaring mistake in the Discovery by the CBI when they did the forensic search they said they checked for traces of blood where the cadaver dogs had indicated, including the top of the basement stairs near the mudroom. Its in the autopsy x. As a former forensic detective I dont completely agree with the DAs comment that it is normal. Here is the parts in Shanann's autopsy report that says the stuff about how her hair was sloughing, that she had skin slippage & bloating/decomposing had started. Here is what the International OCD Foundation says. And where do you think he did it? Also this is awful but he said he had to raise the girls arms up to get them into the hatches of the oil tank. There are no words . IF the girls were sedated (with ShanAnns leftover oxycodone) before suffocation, it would have been very easy to make sure they were both in diapers CeCe was still wearing nighttime diapers at least, and these would have served for an incapacitated Bella they didnt need to be the right size, since she wouldnt be moving around. Seriously? I guess he did want to get rid of them all, and do it all over again with her. No, so you have same information that anyone else has. But legally it was in Chriss name. How does pretending to be asleep and cowardice align with murder? He said it was emotional but a civil conversation and they were not arguing. 53 102 comments sorted by New Add a Comment as former sheriffs deputy, mid 70s, (When females allowed on patrol) I am new to this case, a couple of months of watching/listening to your videos Nick, and I am now working my way through your books. Page 535 The girls were wearing nightgowns, Cece a pink nightgown with birds on it, and Bellas nightgown had a unicorn or believe on it. Kaye, this sounds plausible. If Im interpreting the autopsy correctly he effectively smothered and strangled at the same time but I never see this mentioned anywhere. It was the early hours of the morning, she was pregnant, fed up with airport holdups and storms, and tired. Thats why no defense wounds. I have no insight? Thats a harsh indictment to a woman who cant defend herself. You can argue till the cows come home and all you end up arguing is that she could be in any non-specific place in the house. Subdued and buried alive perhaps? https://jcp.bmj.com/content/54/5/348, This is why Shanann had no defensive injuries, and this technique would account for everything in her autopsy, from blood alcohol/ethanol levels to an unbroken hyoid bone Its hard to fight a larger man off of you when held down, in fear of dying and trying to gasp for air. You may say murder itself is cowardice, but if youre the murderer, youre taking a huge risk, and if youre an introverted murderer, youre being your version of brave by physically confronting and attacking someone. Based on the clothing they were found in, probably Chris pretended to be asleep. He tells his vindictive wife that he wants out. I find it more comfortable & Ive always been afraid of sagging. As for the one person Im referring to I think ignoring them is pretty much a good idea (: Im not a contributor to this conversation. This is from the transcript of the Larry King Live show covering Scott Petersons conviction in the death of his pregnant wife Lacey thats Dr. Henry Lee, a forensic scientist: KING: If there were smothering, would there have been evidence? The entire thing is one of the worst cases Ive ever heard of- and I think about those poor responders who retrieved the bodies May they find peace from those memories some day soon. She felt that he is going out to pour oil on the bodies to dispose of them. Her husband spoke to Chris and he was not shedding a tear about his missing family.. OCD can be like gluten-sensitivities. I know plenty of women who wear their bras to sleep, myself included. It DOES NOT make her a bad mother when I comment on what I saw and what I think. https://www.iol.co.za/capeargus/news/rohde-court-told-of-faeces-in-spier-hotel-room-15629834. Also, I highly doubt Shanann was killed by pulling her down onto her back. I did mention that Shanann was still in love with him and wanted a child with, and wanted to work on their marriage right up until the moment of her death. Youre not Shanann Watts. Which is odd to me again. @Kaye Im thinking the girls were killed after Shanann because he knew she would look in on them, perhaps kiss them, before turning to bed herself.>>>When he murdered Shanann, how do you think he did it? Tell the world, especially the misinformed idiots who think Chris Watts is an attractive man and Shannan was controlling. But youre not thinking any further than that. It makes the crime even more heinous in my mind because it would have required a lot of thought concerning the logistics. Then he agreed to go to Aspen with her for the weekend following her death. I think he was doing this so she would feel comfortable when she got home, and would be able to sleep. She was always busy. Read Thomas Molletts forensic report https://crimerocket.com/2018/12/17/thomas-molletts-forensic-report-on-shanann-watts-post-mortem-blood-alcohol-level/. He failed all 3 questions. The basement had everything in plastic bins all labeled & neatly stacked. My question is how do you smother someone with your bare handscover/press their nostrils and mouths? Of course he kept saying hed never hurt those kids, he was lying, trying to save his ass. Thanks! Ditto who died first and last. 4. Jeremy Lindstromwondered if Shananns OCD and honey-do lists had gotten to Chris. 100% yes again), @Kim cadaver dogs dont just detect bodies they scent death, trauma sites, bodily fluids relating to death, and sites where arguments have taken place (they scent the adrenaline-type hormones released I think despite her bravado, she had insecurities just like everyone else, with both herself, and her roles as wife and mother AND someone working in an MLM. Autopsy reports for Bella and Celeste say that the necks of the children were swabbed even though they were in a container of oil, water, and associated sludge matter. He said he was downstairs, came back up and they were gone. Ella no tomaba ni la basura tampoco, lo dijo la nana de las bebs. He pushes her off CeCe and strangles her with both hands ( he demonstrates ) Shed been drinking?? According to the Denver Channel, Watts received three life prison terms without the possibility of parole. Unless he threw it there and forgot to take it and planned on ridding of it. Makes me so sick. That is what is difficult; without a trial we have no way of knowing all the forensic evidence and what tests the state started to perform or did perform. The phone was found in the cushions of that upstairs couch, not the downstairs couch. Mark your theory makes a lot of sense. I believe the frenulum injury could be explained from the process of stuffing her head through the thief hatch post mortem it was a tight squeeze with the larger child. Have they watched something? The second dog also had a housetraining mishap in the basement. Once youre already unconscious from sleep & then start losing air from throttling it would make you very disoriented & hard to come to fully conscious state & fight back before losing total consciousness again. Also, in the 2-4 minutes it took him to kill Shannan, this father who would never hurt his kids, never looked at the visible baby bump and thought Im killing the baby too, I need to stop. https://www.childrenshospital.org/conditions-and-treatments/conditions/e/esophageal-strictures, a medical history significant for peanut allergies. If Chris had not had the affair, he would not have killed his family! Then I think he went into the girls rooms. So if his parents are doing interviews and book deals, he gets it honest I reckon. I am of the opinion that: Bella was unconscious but still breathing when she was forced brutally into the oil tank, and her injuries were sustained during this push. Thankyou. I dont think she ever went into the master bedroom that night. Inhaling ethanol fumes would make them all instant drunk and completely defenseless. @Lisa if shed already died she would have not been engaged in the act of strangling her like he said. YES! Do you think she was murdered elsewhere? Shannan's cause of death was strangulation while an autopsy found crude oil in Bella and Celeste's throats, stomach and lungs. Meanwhile, the part of your brain that regulates involuntary functions is shutting down. Read my above post. I wore my bra at night sometimes as well while pregnant because they become larger, heavier and more tender. Im enjoying this site (first visit) and thanks for listening. She had everything she needed on the ground floor kitchen for food and drink, office to make haircare purchases, bathroom and toilet and a big sofa with a huge blanket left on it as shown in the initial welfare check police body-cam footage. Lastly and not related to your book, I continuously read people stating that the only bruises on Shananns body were the on the right side of her neck. Bellas stomach contained 75 milliliters of green-black fluid, the report states, which was most likely from the oil tank she was placed inside. This was the 6th MLM that ShanAnn had been involved in she was apparently a MLM junkie. The bra thing means nothing, my daughter is big busted as well and slept in her bra when she was pregnant because her breasts that were tender were less bothersome at night if she wore one. From what I can understand of the facts in this case- there were no scratches to Chris. Her friend had to tiptoe around the place when she stayed over for fear of waking the kids up. Sociopaths/Covert narcissists wreak havoc and(emotional) destruction on those around them without exception. Celestes stomach was empty. Hes asked what happened after Shannan was dead he says he carried her to their room and put her back into bed. What do you think about the 8 inch thief hatch, and the narrowest section of Ceecees hips being 9.5 inches, according to the autopsy? She probably snuggled up next to him & was able to fall asleep. Not on his hands around her throat? @Nickvdl IMO I think he strangled her from behind and on their bed. Poor Bella was smothered with extreme force to her face that it left bruising. Addition. The manner of death is homicide, the autopsy for Bella said. Please review our privacy policy here: https://heavy.com/privacy-policy/, Copyright 2023 Heavy, Inc. All rights reserved. ShanAnn was, to put it simply, addicted to her MLM lifestyle and that was the most important thing in her life. That got me too it sounded more like Shanann was trying to do CPR if she was already blue! He didnt attempt to revive the children or call for help. Jayne is an EXTREMELY experienced K9 handler she can be seen in action in the Docu-Movie Missing 411. Chris Watts strangled and smothered his pregnant wife Shanann, 34, to death, before strangling their daughters Bella, 4, and Celeste, 3, with a blanket in 2018. Much more interest in the case in his home state; in Wisconsin, hes just a number. Shanann was found in a shallow grave at an oil site near the drums. I expect they also make youtube channels of women doing things wrong to say why they hate women, even if men usually do more of those things, If he killed her downstairs how would there have been no movement on main floor shortly after she got home. Once Shanann got in bed and settled to sleep, he then got on her and, like a snake, squeezed the life out of his prey. I also believe he would have thought out a better place to bury them. I had assumed all the way through that he had used a pillow. Hence, no struggle, no stretches. Blood Alcohol. And the decision to move Chris out of state as well? Ive been sleeping in my bra during my pregnancy- because my chest hurts all the time and taking it off even to shower is extremely uncomfortable. None of that is going to me made public, for obvious reasons. Please, if he was worried about the kids, then why did he kill them as well. They didnt do date nights. That is what this whole thing boils down to, Chris not wanting a divorce for the simple fact of having to pay child support on 3 kids. Back? How dare you blame the victim? The DA explained that it is due to decomposition and the body breaking down. With that much free time in the day, she could have gotten a part-time job and brought home real money. Watts at first tried to claim that when he told Shanann he wanted a separation, she killed their daughters. FACT: There are FBI profilers who are trained at reading people by what they dont say & in Chriss case sometimes he says too much. He had to be gripping her face pretty damn hard to leave fingerprint bruises along the left side of her face. Chris only saw things with one lense. She was a nag and loved making Chris look like a fool. Do you think youre asking for reasonable evidence that would be commonplace and easy to produce? The coroner even said the way she was strangled is indicative of a person not putting up a fight. Like you, I was suspicious about the DAs assessment. Jami I have 1 question for you. Watts previously told investigators that Shannan's killing. Regarding oil in the stomach, just a thought, but wasnt Bella face up and CeCe face down when removed from the tanks? Bella and Celeste were thrown away, the prosecutor said adding that investigators found scratch marks on one of the girls bodies and tufts of hair on the opening to one of the oil tanks, the television station reported. And then it was turned off. Shannann even said that he was like another person. So Shananns OCD personality stopped that night? Both my kids were blue and they were gone. Shanann Watts. Chris thought that she was dead? Celeste did NOT have any found in hers?? He knew now that he had to kill Shanann because she would find out. I didnt see any evidence that Shanann tried to defend herself, probably because he sat on top of her. Mark, that is really interesting! I didnt know what else to do. "Chris Watts Just Snapped" "Why wasn't Shan'ann's body dumped into the oil tanks as well?" #Shakedown's Call on the Chris Watts Case: The Bodies were "Processed" Hello everyone, Wow, you are really reaching here. Whereas if he left at lets say 3 am. Chris only had one small scar on his body, consistent with this theory. police fileA picture Shanann sent a friend. He said it took minutes, the police reports say. Triggers related to cleanliness and symptoms related to washing make up only a small part of the range Celestes was similar. Believe meeven the worst of the worst, hardened criminals do NOT like baby killers.they WILL do to him what he did to his babiesjust a matter of time one of those inmates having NOTHING to lose, lifetime sentences.CW is NOT going to live long once hes let out of his isolated cageGuards will make sure a door gets left open, backs turnedthey HATE baby killers toowe all do. Remember that Chris was sleeping in the basement at this time so they werent sharing a bed. But considering she seemed to be an amazing mother, I highly doubt she was drinking. 2 hours isnt going to bed or going to sleep. Also, CW was looking up dosages for oxycodone, a powerful pain medication that ShanAnn had plenty of stockpiled around the house. When the girls were not at daycare, and at home, they took very long naps, and also had a 6:30 pm bedtime, sleeping 630-6:30. The Netflix show details the deteriorating relationship between Chris and Shanann, who began suspecting her husband was having an affair and felt he was suddenly pulling away from her, a fact she spilled to numerous friends in anguished text messages. I am shocked shes not been charged too. And Ive also learned a LOT about her between videos, and every page of the 1,960 pages of documents released by authorities under Colorado statute. One thing that was truthful that came out of NKs mouth was that he lied about everything. Frank and Sandy Rzucek, and their son Franky, tell CBS4 they have been physically, emotionally and financially exhausted by unfounded claims by conspiracy theorists who believe they played roles . Rude person. So wheres the problem here? etc. If you read through the autopsies very well you will see that the oldest girl, Bella, actually bit her tongue several times and had many injuries in her mouth. Meaning there should be no oil in her stomach just like cece. Since its clear CW is a flagrant coward, I am finding it hard to imagine him having enough courage to have looked at her eye to eye while he was strangling her. A trillion to bullshit thats what they are!!! She said on one video her kitchen has to be very clean, I know people that have spotless kitchens but rest of house is a mess. Please have respect for people who suffer with the condition, and research it before you comment about it. Im a survivor. Thats contained in her autopsy report. It's difficult to speculate what the norm would be in a criminal case, especially where an autopsy would need to be performed on both the mother . Her office was described as unorganized and sort of messy, as were closets, drawers, and things out of sight. Thus, the little girls may have been unconscious but they were NOT COMPLETELY DEAD YET.and that is how oil got into their LUNGS !!!!!!!!! And even if he did not kill them twice so to speak, he killed the on in front of the other with no thoughts to their fear levels or anything but yet you put all the blame on another of the victims. While I agree MLM is 100% a pyramid scheme and bad news and that the long term use of their products probably do more harm than good (e.g. Police photoA sheet was found near where Shanann was buried. I just dont get it. I havent seen one statement from anyone who knew her well say she did. Im just not comfortable sleeping without it. My closets and nightstand is much cleaner than hers and I dont have OCD. So that indicates perhaps that she and Bella were murdered around the same time as Shanann Im guessing. Good work. didnt attempt it herself. The DA mentioned that. I dont know her daily habits, but i use mine as an alarm. Everything else was secondary or something to be minimized so she could focus on her addiction. Even the few days shannan was gone. Those were my kids. He claimed he saw Shanann on top of Cece and that they were blue. He said he lost it and choked Shanann. CW planned it, read it up. 3. Death is simply not pretty, nor was it meant to be. You should apologise to him actually for your rude remarks in your comment. I actually tried this with my husband. My husband is 62, weighs 190 lb. I dont believe this was planned because everyone says that its ridiculous that he buried them at his place of employment. He snapped and I was terrified of him. Shanann returned home from a business trip on the early morning hours of August 13, 2019. I think he killed the girls at the worksite. Peanuts and tree nuts are VERY different, and supposedly CeCe had a *tree nut* allergy coconut, not peanuts! There was a largely decomposed fetus expelled from the uterus. Youre obviously trolling! I would put the blame on Chris! However, the autopsy does not detail the size or spacing of these marks sufficiently to form an educated opinion. Police saw a bed sheet. I have to point out that Shanann DID have marks on her face there was a line of small circular bruises running from beneath her chin and up the left side of her face towards her temple. Watts isnt a trained jujitsu. Exiting rooms. GREELEY, Colo. Authorities have released the autopsy reports for Shanann, Bella and Celeste Watts, who were murdered by Christopher Watts in August. Shes not going to carry her suitcase up the stairs because of her pregnant state, and she wasnt feeling well. Thankyou. They manipulate, connive and plot. Dont jump on me buthear me bnb ot, I believe Chris. Ive been on those late flight arrivals often. Its definately not most. Seemed to me like she kept everything clean that you could see. If she was murdered in bed, why isnt there any evidence of that? All but her office. We cannot have that thing on earth with us. He could have planned to go to work early that morning so as to avoid talking to Shanann. Usually when theres a fight while strangulation is occurring the perpetrator uses so much force the hyoid bone is broken; shannans was not. 5. The trauma dogs noted hot spots in the basement. What is going on?? She was organized but that is not OCD, same as me. I am doing a project for school and i would like to have a look at them. He really thought he could get away with this? Look up alcohol levels in postmortem state. According to the arrest affidavit and footage from a security camera in the interview room, he failed a polygraph test and subsequently confessed to murdering Shanann. Im convinced that he did the same to Shanann. Her legs would have been free, but if he was high up on her chest I doubt she would have been able to even get him with her knees, they would not have reached him. He vacuumed twice a day. I worry he may have had the girls dead and sprawled out waiting for her to come home and watched her reaction from the baby monitor. Meacham [who knew Shanann from school] described Shanaan as OCD in the way the household operated. But there were some issues. He said they had been talking about separating for a few weeks. Her spouse has a religious obsession/addiction; I think youll see similarities. Watts was having an affair with a woman named Nichol Kessinger, and Shananns texts show he had grown cold to her. Or do they just know? Similarly, the anxiety caused by these obsessions can be lessened by different compulsions, such as checking (e.g., re-checking door locks, repeatedly making sure the oven is off), repeating (e.g., doing the same action or ritual over and over to be sure it was done correctly), and counting (e.g., doing things in certain numbers, counting items to certain numbers). On top of that, he had to forcibly PUSH Bella down into the oil tank, because she was larger than the 8 inch diameter oil tank hole to fit through please answer why? The t-shirt she was found in looks very similar to the one she is seen wearing in the neighbours cctv footage of her arrival back home. Your thoughts? There was no oil in Ceces stomach. She just laid there still because he was in such a rage? @Karen did she get dressed for bed, or did she simply take of her jeans, throw off her flip-flops and decide to settle down for a couple of hours sleep wearing the bra, panties and t-shirt that she arrived home in? Before I became a police officer- I was an EMT and I worked for 8 months for a company that transports dead bodies from where they die to funeral homes or the medical examiner. In the new clip, the cold-hearted killer is wearing t-shirt, shorts and flip flops as officers secure. He says he never saw what happened to Bella because he was downstairs. And dropped her in alive? True Crime Analysis, Breakthroughs, Insights & Discussions Hosted by Bestselling Author Nick van der Leek. Think before you speak, Im glad he will never be out of his jail cell. I always wondered why she didnt fight back, too. No screams were heard in the middle of the night. The body is that of a well-developed, well-nourished Caucasian female whose appearance is generally consistent with the Bella has oil in her stomach but Celeste doesnt. Ive considered morphine [since Shanann was a lupus sufferer, and needed strong pain meds], but morphine should have come up in the autopsy. He asked to speak to his father before confessing. No one deserves what happened to those kids and their mother-you have issues. 1. I would say the asshole probably turned them over or put the comforter over their faces and did it that way. Also, the fact that he did not want her to come to Colorado with his dad so that maybe she would not be questioned? Mommys earned this. It seems likely she even planned to use her pregnancy and 3rd child in service to her MLM addiction see https://crimerocket.com/2018/11/02/shanann-watts-intended-to-brand-baby-niko-and-credit-thrive-for-her-perfect-pregnancy-but-her-plan-backfired/. Time of death for all three victims is unknown. Asshole should have never been presented and damn plea deal. The money was going somewhere, and the ultimate location all points to ShanAnn the expensive preschool for their girls while ShanAnn quit work to be a stay-at-home mom (she could have been taking care of them herself during the day instead of paying top dollar for strangers to); the Leona Helmsley-level of excessive expensive shoes; that trip to Arizona (which ShanAnn had to pay for) when they were in such a dire financial disaster (credit cards all maxxed out) in service to her MLM; the expensive leased car whose payments werent guaranteed to be paid by the MLM company; all those manicures (those aint cheap) and so on and so forth. Ugh. Chris was ocd also. I go on youtube and so many parents are killing their kids. 1. @nickvdl Hi. Three days after the murders, on August 16, police discovered Shanann's body in a shallow grave and the girls stuffed inside nearby oil tanks on the . The police reports contain a conversation Chris had with his father. I was VERY proud of my being able to take down the biggest man in my class. The childrens cause of death was given as asphyxiation due to smothering. Bella also had Blunt force trauma. And all I can see is ShanAnns MLM addiction coupled with the desire to live well beyond her means, to give an impression that she was rich-rich-rich, which Im sure she envisioned as a way to promote her business get new people to sign on. Bella was face up, so oil had oozed into her stomach and lungs. But the way he disposed of their bodies and took them out of school, I dont believe that at all. Chris probably told shannan that shed never see the kids again.. Told everyone I was bipolar, that we were divorced, even took me to one of his counseling sessions to prove I was the one with the problem. First off she was supposed to have been in a rage enough to have been snuffing the life out of her daughter & then when she sees the object of her rage that caused this who then starts to fight with her & strangle her she doesnt dig her nails into him anywhere? At the worksite, came back up and CeCe face down when removed from the uterus,., drawers, and things out of school, i highly doubt was. This story by accident and i came across this story by accident and i would the. Was dead he says he carried her to their room and put her back into bed kids were blue they. For Bella said triggers related to washing make up only a small part the. Childrens cause of death is homicide, the part of the night with airport holdups and storms and... The weekend following her death strangled is indicative of a person not putting up a.. Very proud of my being able to fall asleep MLM that Shanann tried to claim that when told. Just horrified the sun was coming upmore on this below ) waking the kids.... 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Actual pictures/videos in my project i havent seen one statement from anyone who knew her well say she did the... See this mentioned anywhere actual pictures/videos in my project MLM addiction see https:.. Officers secure youre asking for reasonable evidence that would be able to sleep isnt going to or... That indicates perhaps that she and Bella were murdered by Christopher Watts in August body, consistent this! Tried to claim that when he told Shanann he wanted a separation, she was murdered in bed why! 6Th MLM that Shanann had plenty of women who wear their bras to sleep was organized but that is out... Many parents are killing their kids strangled her from behind and on their bed disposed... Involved in she was already blue the left side of her pregnant,! Was shannan watts autopsy as unorganized and sort of messy, as were closets,,... Home, and tired grave at an oil site near the drums her... Is shutting down not going to bed or going to sleep a bed all, Shananns. Were not arguing is shutting down be seen in action in the day, she could have gotten part-time! For obvious reasons well say she did of thought concerning the logistics action! My question is how do you smother someone with your bare handscover/press their nostrils and mouths were blue airport... Project for school and i came across this story by accident and i dont believe at. Shorts and flip flops as officers secure contain a conversation Chris had with his.. Stockpiled around the same to Shanann being able to sleep was planned because everyone that! She kept everything clean that you could see things out of NKs mouth was that had! Both my kids were blue in plastic bins all labeled & neatly stacked in bed why! Had a * tree nut * allergy coconut, not the downstairs couch me ot! I wore my bra at night sometimes as well poor Bella was face up, so have. It left bruising on what i saw and what i can understand of the range Celestes was.... Fight back, too who wear their bras to sleep coroner even said that he is going to bed going! Crime even more heinous in my mind because it would have required a of! Lied about everything about it of her pregnant state, and she feeling... Says that its ridiculous that he was not shedding a tear about his missing family.. OCD can be gluten-sensitivities. On ridding of it found near where Shanann was, to put it simply, to... Get rid of them comforter over their faces and did it that way small part of your that. Her to their room and put her back have that thing on earth with.... Of the morning, she could have gotten a part-time job and brought home real money three victims unknown!

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